I like the Red Sox much more, and I do believe the Red Sox will win the series. But to say that Tim Wakefield is better then C.C. Sabathia is more stupid then me saying the Mets are betting then the Yanks. Gotta go with Virginia.
I lumped Wake in as one of the top 3 starters the Sox have, didn't say he was better than Sabathia. As a whole, the Sox top 3 are a lot better than the Yanks top 3 pitchers.
If he's one of the top 3 starters you have, you're pitching isn't very good. The Yankees have so much pitching depth that I have no idea who is who anymore. Obviously CC is the ace, but they might be going with a 6-man rotation because they don't know who to bump out, because everyone is doing so well.
Wakefield's a notorious Yankee killer, or did you forget that? Papelbon is having a resurgence of a year as well. Followed by Daniel Bard, who until last week, didn't give up a run since May. The fact that you don't know who's coming out of the Yankee system astounds me. Ivan Nova's your latest product that has come out of Scranton, but has produced mediocre results thus far.
Oh yes...because a 10-4 record and 3.81 ERA - with 10 K's and 0 walks in his last outing - is so mediocre. He has gotten better with every start, that's why he's still here. The Yankees have a .265 average against Wakefield...he's not too spectacular against them, he's not a "Yankee killer", rather he's "mediocre." And overall, Wake's ERA, which is hovering around 5.00, is worse than mediocre. If we're going position by position here, which is the argument you challenged me with, and Wake is your #3, then whoever the Yankees throw out there for #3 - Garcia, Nova, Burnett, Hughes - is better than Wakefield. And again, position by position...you seriously can't debate that Mo is better than Pap. And David Robertson is way better than Bard. His 1.48 ERA, 3-0 record, 68 K, and 14.3 K/9 are all better than Bard and his 2.25 ERA, 1-5 record, 49 K, and 8.6 K/9.
a 10-4 record means nothing when you have an offense like that. The 3.81 ERA is what I look at. That means Nova gets roughed up. You told me that offense means nothing, it's time to see the other side of the mirror.
Mo's a Hall of Famer, there's no protesting that. My bottom argument, is that you rely too much on stats as opposed to watching the players play. Best of luck to your team this weekend, but I feel it's too little too late for them.
I watch every Yankees game and am bored to death when they have an off day and almost go suicidal in the winter (I know, I need more hobbies). I use stats to back up what I've seen. My eyes obviously don't lie, because the numbers don't lie. I've said that Ivan Nova has gotten better each time I've seen him. Since you don't care about his record I'll prove it with this stat: April ERA: 5.82. May ERA: 3.90. June ERA: 3.58 July ERA: 2.25 ERA. August ERA (so far): 1.17 ERA. Boom. I've seen how he has become more confident on the mound as well. And he's not afraid to try new things. Nova has been using a new slider lately along with his fastball, curve, and change.
And it's not too late for the Yankees yet considering they're in first place, but whatever.
I'd hardly call giving up less than 4 runs a game "roughed up." I never said offense means nothing, I said when it boils down to it, good pitching beats good hitting. If you think Nova's bad then take a look at Wakefield and his beyond roughed-up season.
Oh and by the way, I think you're the one going on stats too much. You're nit-picking on minute differences between Cano and Pedroia's batting average...so because Pedroia has a better average by a few points now, he's a better player than Cano? Wow.
"o say that Tim Wakefield is better then C.C. Sabathia is more stupid then me saying the Mets are betting then the Yanks" HMMMM now who did u make that claim against lol.
lol Ari!!! Yeah, if Wakefield is in your top 3 of starters, thats not very good. As much as i thought Ivan Nova was overrated, hes not, hes hella good. Sabathia and Nova have pitched very well and Garcia and Colon have had some good games. Though the Yanks can't seem to be the Sox.
They couldn't beat them in the first half of 2009 either...but they made up for that in the next half against them. Oh, and they kind of won the WS that year. They beat the Sox last night and are doing well today. But again, this debate was about position by position and who's better. Mike really didn't talk about the positions except for first base, and 2nd base but I don't believe he's right on that one.
He's right about 1st base as Gonzo has the slight edge due to the high batting average and greater RBI total. Second base is tough but slight edge to Cano due to superior defense and run producing ability since both are .300 hitters easy. SS is a no brainer with Jeter, 3rd RIGHT NOW is a no brainer since A-Rod is out but with both healthy a slight edge to A-Rod again due to superior defense and in a normal season superior run production, right field you give to Swisher though Reddick has played very well of late and I'd honestly probably take him at this point since he's been so hot at the plate, Center you take Grandy but barely as Ellsbury has had a great year but Grandy's run production and power numbers win out, and left THIS YEAR you take Gardner but it would not surprise me to see the gap be incredibly wide in Boston's favor by next year. Catcher I think you take Martin over Salty but neither are anything to write home about. Pitching-wise I'd say the Beckett/CC #1 thing could go either way as both have been great, Lester is clearly a better #2 than anyone the Yankees can throw out there, but 3-5 the Yankees are stronger than Boston as the Sox have a lot of injuries. Bullpen is no contest as the Yankees has clearly been better. Manager I give a definitive edge to Boston as Francona I think is better than professor Ben Stiller from There's Something About Mary in the Yankee dugout.
Bottom line is that it's pretty even. You have a ton of talent on each team. The place I might give the edge to Boston is in a short series, to have Beckett and Lester throwing as well as they have, that's dangerous. Outside of CC, the Yankees don't have that. In a long series though, if you take a game from one of Boston's top 2, you can beat their back end and win the series. That's pretty much all I got. Resume your silly arguments!
No need Eric, you pretty much hit the nail right on the head ;) Position by position, Yanks are better.
No Way Grandy is better then Jacoby. Yankees might be better then the Sox position by position, but the Red Sox find ways to win, better chemistry? IDK, Yankees are still better position by position.
And position by position is what this guy challenged me with.
i actually agree with jason, yanks are better position by position but right now, just currently, the red sox have found ways to beat them more, if that will continue idk, but the debate was position by position yanks are better gotta go with virginia
Position by Position breakdown:
C-A wash neither have a leg to stand on because truthfully both teams have crappy catching tandems
1B Adrian Gonzalez over Teixeira
2B Cano over Pedroia
SS Scutaro over Jeter
3B Youkilis over A-Rod
LF Crawford over Gardner
CF Granderson over Ellsbury
RF Swisher over Drew
DH Ortiz over Posada/Jones
Beckett over Sabathia here's why in 15 starts against teams over .500 Beckett is 6-3 with a 1.82 ERA while Sabathia in 16 starts has a record of 8-6 with a 3.53 ERA
Lester over Burnett
Lackey over Hughes
Garcia over Wakefield
Colon over Miller/Bedard
Closer Rivera over Papelbon
Bos 8 NYY 6
Jeter over Scutaro
Sabathia over Becket
If you seriously think Marco Scutaro is a better player than Derek Jeter then you need help. Also, Carl Crawford sucks and his contract is way too big for him. CC Sabathia is better than Josh Beckett. Also you forgot Bullpen: Robertson over Bard, Soriano over whoever they have, the Yankee bullpen is the best in the Majors. And when A-Rod comes back he'll be better than Pukilis.
Carl Crawford sucks? He's got progressively better as the season has gone on. As For your CC argument. Between CC and Beckett, in a big game with everything on the line, I'll go Beckett every time. Sabathia is the A-Rod of pitching. Puts up great numbers during the regular season, in the postseason he gets rocked. Becket on the other hand is a big game pitcher, he lives for it.
Yeah he does suck. He batted around .150 in April, but he did have a hot May. Then his numbers were worse in June, and even worse in July. At .257 with 7 HR, he's playing pretty darn sucky for that contract. Brett Gardner has gotten better as the year has progressed. He hit under .200 in April, but then his over .300 in May and June, and his hitting .313 so far this month. He's one of the leaders in outfield assists and stolen bases - and all for a reasonable price. I'd rather have Gardner than Crawford.
If Sabathia is the A-Rod of pitching, I'd be happy. A-Rod was the Postseason MVP for the Yankees in 2009. Beckett is a baby and takes too long to throw the ball.
That's funny considering the fact that Jeter's defense is the worst in baseball at the short stop position and he's regressed offensively. His numbers maybe just a little bit better than Scutaro's offensively, but defensive Scutaro is Ozzie Smith compared to Jeter!
Crawford maybe having a difficult time adjusting to his new team, but he's still a better player than Garnder. CC Sabathia is not better than Beckett compare the numbers of Sabathia and Beckett and look at the numbers against teams over .500
Oh wait I already did that for you in my previous comment so why don't you look at it again Beckett 6-3 with a 1.82 ERA against teams over .500, Sabathia on the other hand is 8-6 with a 3.53 ERA, it's actually worse now 8-7 with a 3.67 ERA.
Even when A-Rod is healthy and Youkilis is healthy, Youkilis is still better!
Youkilis 17 and 78 to A-Rod's 13 and 52.
Robertson is overrated, Bard is proven. Bard>Robertson.
Only thing the Yankees have is at closer.
Also I love how there's no argument over the DH. Ortiz is clearly better over anything the Yankees roll out there. Giambi didn't work, Posada and Jones are not working out of that spot.
Wow so you have DH and 1B. The Yankees DH isn't a set position, it varies, but yeah your DH is better (until Montero comes up!). Yanks have 2nd, Short, 3rd if it's A-Rod, and outfield as well as bullpen and select starters.
Oh, and this year, Marco Scutaro IS putting up better numbers than Jeter. Fact, not opinion.
If you asked any team who they'd rather have at shortstop, more would say Derek Jeter than Scutaro - even if Scutaro is currently batting a measly 7 points higher. Well okay, Jeter has WAY more stolen bases and almost 20 RBI more than Scutaro, more walks, more total bases, and a better fielding percentage...so what "numbers" were you referring to...
The fact is Jeter is not the force he was 10 years ago with the Yankees as he is today. Him being voted into the All-Star game by the fans only means he was voted in by name only. He's 37 and is playing like his age. Still hitting at the top of the Yankee order mind you, while Scutaro hits at the bottom with not as much power around him (Hence, why Jeter has a better OBP than Scutaro). Scutaro, even at the bottom of Boston's line up will be pitched to, and he's answered. With an average seven points higher than Jeter's mind you. Now I'm not taking anything away from Jeter for his career. He's had an amazing career and will go down as one of the best shortstops of all time. But this year, Scutaro is winning.
MikePeterson has this in the bag. Red Sox have much better fielding players but not better pitchers than the Yanks though
Their fielding is really not that much better at all...the only reason the Yankees have more errors and a lower team fielding percentage is because of Eduardo Nunez, the rookie who was forced to fill in for Jeter and A-Rod. The Yankees have more Gold Glovers and an All-Star infield. The only reason people think the Sox are better is because of what happened this weekend, but that's not what this debate is about.
He hasn't been "playing like his age" since coming off the DL. Jeter has been much better of late and has already matched his RBI total from before he went on the DL. Over 7 batting average points, you think that makes Scutaro better? Again, who's looking too much at stats this time...
A middle school softball player has a better arm than Derek Jeter! Jeter is pathetic defensively, if the Yankees were serious about winning when they signed A-Rod, Jeter should have been moved to second base.
But, the Yankees don't really need that good of a defensive if they have a great offense and because of that Jeter will go down as the most overrated player in baseball history! Jeter is an above average player, but the elite/superstar status that he consistently gets is laughable.
He has never been the best player at the shortstop position his entire career. His best years he couldn't even compete with the likes of Rodriguez, Tejada and Garciaparra. Even after they slowed down then came Jimmy Rollins and Troy Tulowitzki.
What's sad is Omar Vizquel at the age of 44 still has better range and a better arm than Jeter.
You must be logged in leave a comment.
A FanVsFan Challenge is a structured debate between two fans. Each fan gets two turns to prove their case and silence their rival. Other fans can view, vote and comment on the debate. Get involved and vote on the debates below.
See Full Leaderboard
uCiC App: Reach Out to Fellow Users
Fireplaces: The best way to beautify and add value to your home
Enjoy winters with the best fireplace inserts
Benefits of Art Based Fundraising Programs
Add warmness and beauty to your home with fireplaces
Find the best fireplace installation and repair service online